Realistic PODs for a surviving Al-Andalus

[Galba Otho Vitelius]

"I would start with the destruction of every Christian kingdom south of the Pyrenees. It would a lot harder for the Christians to launch a Reconquista if they have only a Mediterranean coastal strip plus some mountain passes from which to launch it."

I'll go one better. Muslim France. At least for awhile.

Really, in any scenario where Catholic Europe is severely nerfed, Muslim outposts like Andulas will do fine.

Other than that, you need to put Iberia in a similar situation to Anatolia, which is difficult since Anatolia was more vulnerable to Islamicized nomads and obviously got less support from the Christian west. But if you want to do a timeline, you can turn one of the Taifas into the equivalent of the House of Osman.

 

[HyperMuscularDemon]

Given how Al-Andalusia had problems with ethnic tension and religious tension during the timeline of the Muslim prescence in Spain, I think a good factor for the Andalusian emirates to survive longer is to get rid of discrimination against Christian, Berbers, and local Iberian Muslims.

 

[jacob ningen]

Given how Al-Andalusia had problems with ethnic tension and religious tension during the timeline of the Muslim prescence in Spain, I think a good factor for the Andalusian emirates to survive longer is to get rid of discrimination against Christian, Berbers, and local Iberian Muslims.

ie the solution to the Umayyad problems everywhere. insert if I had a nickel meme

 

[TheWitheredStriker]

Interesting. What was your TL called?

It was an old timeline created on the Alternate History Wiki on FANDOM, not on this board. I might revive it at some point, whether here or otherwise, but for now I'm mostly focused on a conworld with a couple religious PoDs (like Japan converting to Christianity and Cambodia remaining Hindu).

I appreciate your interest though! The idea of doing a Mozarabic Al-Andalus TL on this board has floated my mind before.

 

[Zenevidas]

"I would start with the destruction of every Christian kingdom south of the Pyrenees. It would a lot harder for the Christians to launch a Reconquista if they have only a Mediterranean coastal strip plus some mountain passes from which to launch it."

I'll go one better. Muslim France. At least for awhile.

Really, in any scenario where Catholic Europe is severely nerfed, Muslim outposts like Andulus will do fine.

Other than that, you need to put Iberia in a similar situation to Anatolia, which is difficult since Anatolia was more vulnerable to Islamicized nomads and obviously got less support from the Christian west. But if you want to do a timeline, you can turn one of the Taifas into the equivalent of the House of Osman.

possibly just aquitaine and the rest of the south

 

[holycookie]

Al Andalus is one of the most interesting societies in world history. It was an eclectic, diverse society of Muslims, Christians, and Jews living together in relative harmony compared to other regions at the time.

Well let's go parts like jack the ripper. Firstly this is wrong. There was no harmony, you had a nation with an Arab Muslim elite at the top. "Harmony" comes primarily from the suppression of the rest of society in favor of the Arabs. And this is not only with other religions but internally. With Arab supremacy causing instability in the kingdom, with both Berbers and Muladi (Islamic Iberians) suffering strong Arab racism.

It was one of the most advanced societies in Europe for its time

sure

And then, after 600 years, it was gone, swept away by the Reconquista.

Through no fault but her own, this vision is something created by the Spanish left due to the civil war just as the reconquista as a grand Christian plan is created by the Spanish right. The truth is that it was a kingdom with great advances, but it was also a racist and prejudiced society against everything that was not Arab (similar to pre-Mandela South Africa).

How could Al Andalus have continued on into the present?

Yes, we have several forms.From an intense reform in the caliphate to tolerate the muladis to a coup d'état by the population against the government. If you want something more exotic Abd al-Aziz ibn Musa ibn Nusayr rebelling against the Umayyad caliphate would be a way to have something new. He was the son of Musa ibn Nusayr, the Umayyad governor of Ifriqiya. He married widow Egilona, the wife of the last Visigothic king, Egilona's influence over ‘Abd al-Aziz was not common. Some felt that she held too much influence and swayed over ‘Abd al-Aziz. Egilona coaxed ‘Abd al-Aziz to wear a crown, and lower entrance ways to promote veneration of him and people bowing to him.

I'm not sure whether there'd still be a caliphate

in the worst case, only they consider themselves a caliphate

 

[kasumigenx]

I think if Leon and Castile are divided, Al Andalus might survive, a POD for that is Ferdinand of Leon, son of Theresa of Portugal surviving.

 

[Bomster]

Most people will suggest that you "simply" stop Almanzor from taking power, which involves having Al-Hakam II live longer (IOTL he died in 976, leaving his 10-year old son at the mercy of the elite who pushed him around), but I honestly think that's already too late. Al-Andalus has many structural issues plaguing them, like discriminating policies, decentralization, and the inability to raise a standing army, which would still haunt the state even if the hajibs don't take power.

SealTheRealDeal is right – imo, the best way of saving al-Andalus (at least as anything more than an Arab state in Europe, for Arabs by Arabs) is by having Omar ben Hafsún succeed in his attempts to usurp the Umayyads in the 9th century. He was actually rapidly gaining steam, but a fatal defeat at his home turf in 891 destroyed much of his momentum, and he lost the respect of his followers when he converted to Christianity, becoming a mere footnote in history.

ben Hafsún wanted to emancipate the Muladí (native Iberian Muslims) and Mozarabs after unseating the Umayyads, and Arabic would have likely been supplanted by Mozarabic in several fronts (like governance), or at least become a second state language (instead of the sole one). Doing this would likely stabilize the country, as it would hand power from the (oppressive) Arab elite to the overwhelming majority of the country. (Note that the Arabic language is unlikely to disappear even if ben Hafsún takes power; it is, after all, the language of the Quran, and a language of high culture in the Muslim world. Mozarabic would definitely become the first language of the country, but Arabic is going to stick around for sure)

Imo, having ben Hafsún take power is your single best bet to save al-Andalus. I'm not sure whether there'd still be a caliphate (especially since he didn't descend from the Quraysh tribe, though that didn't stop the Ottomans from declaring themselves caliphs, even if many Muslims didn't offer them recognition), but al-Andalus would be a more egalitarian state under his rule, which could allow a lot of its structural problems to be addressed, as well as for there to be more centralization and political stability. Making him win the Battle of Poley seems like a good PoD, since that loss of ben Hafsún's was the beginning of his fall from grace.

If ibn Hafsun wins the Battle of Poley, could he topple the Umayyads without the Emirate fragmenting into an earlier Taifa period? Would the Northern Christians not take advantage to conquer territory?

 

[jacob ningen]

If ibn Hafsun wins the Battle of Poley, could he topple the Umayyads without the Emirate fragmenting into an earlier Taifa period? Would the Northern Christians not take advantage to conquer territory?

maybe. It might prevent the Taifa period since the early Taifa period states legitimized themselves with pseudo-Hisham IIs