The eagle's left head
- Thread starter Lascaris
- Start date
Why wouldn't they ? , the knights are the medieval equivalent of an international society, so even if they lose their top men ( and principal base of operation ), they still have their countless continental holdings to draw from to train new recruits into the ranks of the Hospitallers
Great chapter, I hope after the Serbs it's time for The City finally. Unlike a campaign against the Ottomans or other big players it shouldn't hinder the financial recovery of the Laskarid realm much.
A single Lascarid galley appearing outside it might be enough to convince the mob to switch Emperors by now.
A single Lascarid galley appearing outside it might be enough to convince the mob to switch Emperors by now.
Perhaps, they could be relocated to one of the Baleares islands, providing that Aragon would see a benefice on it. Another option may be either to take the Cape Tres Forcas (Cape Three Forks) in the North African coast. Or if the Hospitallers would prefer another island/s then,I'd suggest that a possible option might be the so called "Tres Insulae" (Chafarinas Islands) in the Alboran Sea. and specifically the Isabel II Island. It's the central island from the small Archipelago, that's located at only a few kms off from the nearby to the then Marinids Sultanate sea town of Ras Kebdana.
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What I find interesting in OTL is the logistics of the Genoese invasion of Cyprus. The Genoese sent over 43 galleys and 14,000 men. But the closest Genoese held territory was Chios. Getting resupplied in Crete is for obvious reasons out of the question hence the two possibilities, are either staging out of Rhodes or colluding with Muslim powers...
Then, the Lascarids have both Rhodes and Crete to resupply, and the Genoese don't even have Chios.
I don't see that many infantry with the bulk of Lascarid forces in Macedonia, perhaps half that, mostly, and so many ships would be overkill given the Venetians and the Hospitalers are out and the Lascarids are controlling the sea.
While, would be interesting, if possible, to learn about the Ottoman perspective on the recents events in the Eastern Med/Aegean...
I think that, indeed, for Murad, the Sicilians, might be possible that they resemble to be a power to be reckoned. So if so, either it would cause to divert his OTL Balkan expansion path, changing a bit towards the Danube, finishing and annexing both the Roman remnants, besieging Constantinople, so as and the Bulgars states.
Even, perhaps, leading the Ottomans to clash, earlier, with the Moldavian Voivodes or may happen that the Sultan Murad would decide that he doesn't have nothing to fear from some Greeks, that 'only' fought with some 'Latin Merchants' and some 'weak' Serbian princes and that are ruled by a woman. And, if so, he may decide to put them to test and either through Turkmens incursions or if an opportunity may arise, attack directly in Macedonia...
OTL, Quid pro quo?
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Even the Ottomans didn't kill their Hospitaller prisoners and allowed them to relocate. Lascarids are trying to make peace with the Latins, not stir them up for no reason.
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So the Venetians are out of the war and Rhodes liberated.
That leaves only Cyprus, ERE and Naples who are currently at war with Sicily. Oh, also Serbia.
John V can get a peace treaty after the last Imperial Aegean islands are liberated.
Cyprus should be the next target of the Despotate to finally end the last vestige of Frankokratia. (not counting Galata)
The Serbian Principalities are stuck between Hungary in the North, Ottomans in the East and Greco-Romans in the South. What fun times to be had.
As for Naples, the war can continue as it has since the 10 Year Truce ended.
That leaves only Cyprus, ERE and Naples who are currently at war with Sicily. Oh, also Serbia.
John V can get a peace treaty after the last Imperial Aegean islands are liberated.
Cyprus should be the next target of the Despotate to finally end the last vestige of Frankokratia. (not counting Galata)
The Serbian Principalities are stuck between Hungary in the North, Ottomans in the East and Greco-Romans in the South. What fun times to be had.
As for Naples, the war can continue as it has since the 10 Year Truce ended.
@Lascaris, please, if you can tell us, what's the population of the Ottoman realm, supposing they get all of Thrace east of the Nestos river (their new border with the Lascarids I gather) and Bulgaria south of the Balkan mountains in the aftermath of Edirne/Maritsa?
And the Lascarids, once they finish conquering Hlapen holdings in Macedonia?
And also, the population of Cyprus, in the r event it is inv... sorry, liberated by the Lascarids.
If you can, with a repartition between different parts of the empire: Sicily, mainland Italy, mainland Greece from Peloponnese to Macedonia, the whole of the Aegean islands (Crete, Rhodes, and Chios included) ?
For bonus if you can, Naples, Hungary and Aragon.
So that we can get a picture of the new balance of power after the Black Death, the War of St Titus, and before the possible Lascarid-Ottoman wars.
Especially in Naples' case, it would be interesting to see how they measure compared to the Lascarids in Italy.
The last time you spoke of it, you mentioned that the Lascarid mainland domains in Italy are on par, or almost, population wise with what's left of Angevin Naples, but I believe that was before the years long devastating war between it, the Hungarians, and Abruzzo.
PS : And in the detail of the Lascarid provinces, could you say how many pronoia infantry or galley crews they can theoretically provide? Thanks.
And the Lascarids, once they finish conquering Hlapen holdings in Macedonia?
And also, the population of Cyprus, in the r event it is inv... sorry, liberated by the Lascarids.
If you can, with a repartition between different parts of the empire: Sicily, mainland Italy, mainland Greece from Peloponnese to Macedonia, the whole of the Aegean islands (Crete, Rhodes, and Chios included) ?
For bonus if you can, Naples, Hungary and Aragon.
So that we can get a picture of the new balance of power after the Black Death, the War of St Titus, and before the possible Lascarid-Ottoman wars.
Especially in Naples' case, it would be interesting to see how they measure compared to the Lascarids in Italy.
The last time you spoke of it, you mentioned that the Lascarid mainland domains in Italy are on par, or almost, population wise with what's left of Angevin Naples, but I believe that was before the years long devastating war between it, the Hungarians, and Abruzzo.
PS : And in the detail of the Lascarid provinces, could you say how many pronoia infantry or galley crews they can theoretically provide? Thanks.
Theodore II will get raised by his mom and grandma... in a court where at the moment the ruling circle has gone expansionist on a rather massive scale compared to earlier years...
The Hungarians may think them as an Anjou vassal. Syracuse has different ideas. Which has been one of the reasons Alexandros II proclaimed himself basileus. Now this is potentially problematic but then Naples has about 546,000 people and is a war torn mess and Lascarid Italy 783,000 people and anything but a war torn mess.
That is a reasonable idea but who would be a potential ally? Not the coastal beyliks given problems with piracy. The Karamanids most likely.
Most likely possibility. Ottoman raiding parties getting out of hand/
Sure. A cold sweat at a minimum. Sicily signed peace with with Venice. Padua... why Padua remains at war with Venice and Venice at the moment does not need much of a navy and can trade again freely with Sicily...
Pronoia holders in East Macedonia likely got massacred outside Adrianople. Of course setting up new pronoias en masse is likely one of the first things Philanthropenos will be doing. And Hlapen is likely next.
Venice still has rather large revenues even without Crete. Which may have interesting side effects between losing her overseas empire and a clear threat in the mainland.
The current pope wanted them to be in the forefront of fighting the Muslims... which is easier said than done at the moment.
They have.
Not much of a mob left, compared to earlier eras at least, and the Palaiologues are holding Constantinople for well over a century by now.
I don;t see the king of Aragon interested in such a deal. Castille... dunno.
Cyprus at the moment isn't really well suited to stand up to a Sicilian invasion. The Genoese likely had a land army of about 5,000 men in addition to their fleet. The Sicilian army that has just recovered Rhodes is twice as big.
Constantinople as seen time and again cannot fall without either artillery or a fleet. Artillery is not up to the task yet and the Ottomans have no fleet at the moment.
Bulgaria was vassalized in 1373 and finished off a decade later...
That leaves only Cyprus, the empire dropped out of the war. Naples doesn't even have the same dynasty any more. Starting a war with Charles IV would mean also going to war with Hungary.
Indeed, that's why, I mentioned that such option, only would be possible if Aragon would see a clear benefice on such cession
Might be be worth to be noted, that those three islands,are 'Terra Nullius'
The Ottoman population for ehm... obvious reasons is changing from year to year. Their current European holdings should have something in the region of 600,000. With perhaps something in the order of 600-700,000 more in Anatolia.
Around 2 million or so.
About 168,000 sounds about right. Possibly less.
Hungary is somewhere in the region of 3-3.5 million, it was 3.4 million in 1440. Aragon should have about 894,000 outside Sardinia, the numbers from Sabate's "Crown of Aragon" add up to 178,791 hearths after the Black Death.
About 546,000 to 783,000. Before taking into account Naples was fighting a civil war for about 2 decades.
Wait a minute, which islands are we talking about exactly ?, because I would much prefer a Sardinia governed by a local dynasty ( for once there is the possibility, so that he can entirely concentrate on improving the local infrastructure and not treat us like a colony ( the only ones who in OTL had given a minimum of attention to the island were, ironically, the Spaniards, rather than their Savoy "" compatriots "" ) rather than instead ending up being annexed to the former Despotate of Syracuse, thank you, but I would prefer to end up back in the hands of the Aragonese in case such a situation is even remotely taken into consideration ( Syracusian annexation of Sardegna ) , rather than the Savoys ( who for us Sardinians are not exactly the brightest example of a good government, to put it in a polite way.... ) if instead we mean Cyprus, Crete and Rhodes, then it's a completely different matter, and I am more than in favor of seeing them incorporated into the possessions of the Sicilian Basileus ( even if I have a small weakness for the Kingdom crusader of Cyprus and for the knights of Malta ... oops I meant Hospitallers 😜 )
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In the first quoted answer, I was discussing about how possible would be a cession from one of the Aragon's Baleares to the Hospitallers. And, the second one was about the Chafarinas, possibility that I suggested upthread and afaik, the only islands that could be considered as terra nullius, close to both the Iberian peninsula and N, Africa
I really don't know how or why you thought that I'd be discussing about Sardinia...
In the first quoted answer, I was discussing about how possible would be a cession from one of the Aragon's Baleares to the Hospitallers. And, the second one was about the Chafarinas, possibility that I suggested upthread and afaik, the only islands that could be considered as terra nullius, close to both the Iberian peninsula and N, Africa
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His mother origins from a mini kingdom not worth the trouble and not exactly bringing anything worth of clout with her. And before you protest in any way, please remember that in the last 20 years the marriage has not shown to bring anything for the LD, Navarra played no role in LD politics. Yes, the reason she was choosen was because there weren´t many possible candidates for the rebellish state back then. The grandmother, with her ERE background, is, yes one last personal connection with the 'old way'. And, yes, I hope she will be around to instill said family motives into the child.
Thinking is nice, but rather empty. Reality is, the LD never decided to step up and vomit out a sign of independence against Louis I. and spitting into his face, cowards that they were. A not unwise decision, considering that Louis power is nothing to sneeze at. Italy might prosper somewhat, but Greece isn´t. It could use some time to integrate the new conquered parts and let the land recover from the Venetian war.
Yes, it is a shift of focus on the way. The LD always was focused on the Aegean. now that most of the Aegean has been annexed, there are new possibilities and all that.
I am very curious what you have in mind for the LD in the next chapters...
What was that for? Royal marriages doesn’t always bring much benefits. Like what did the marriage of Edward III to Philippa of Hainaut bring beyond her initial dowry anyway? What does all of it have to do with what was being discussed anyway?
I mean not really?It’s not that they can’t step up against Louis. They already did by proclaiming themselves emperor or at least king. That you are stepping up against someone does not mean you have to go to war against them. What is the point of going to war against Louis? He doesn’t even care about Naples and just handed the kingdom off to a distant relative while both parties have common incentives in fighting Venice and the Serbians. So why does the Lascarid Empire or Louis actually want to fight against each other?
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Navarra gave the BSH (Basileia Sicilia and Hellas... the Lascarid line aren't Despots any longer...) six daughters and a son. More than enough if you ask me, and far more important than any amount of gold or manpower.
The Lascard line has never acknowledged Louis as their sovereign, nor has Louis ever demanded that they become his vassals. Louis has no navy, he can't enforce anything. The BSH is independent, that is why Alexander II declared an Empire... to reinforce that. If anything Hungary is the closest thing to an ally that the BSH has right now, and why would Louis antagonize one of the largest, friendly Mediterranean Naval powers for... what exactly? Petty arrogance?
The BSH has been focused on freeing and liberating first Hellenic Sicilians, then Hellenic Romans, from occupation by foreign powers. That is where its legitimacy lied in the past, and currently. The most recent past has focused on the Aegean because of Frankokratia, and the future will most likely focus on Macedonia and Thrace because of the Ottomans and the remnants of Serbia.