A New Beginning - Our 1992 Russian Federation

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Kriss

Fratsup said:
I the Arab Spring still going to be a thing? Because supporting Gaddafi only to then having to massacre protesters is not going to help us at all. If anything else we should begin to look for people within the nation who might wish to replace him and become new leaders of Libya to keep the situation from going out of control and also as a way to gain further influence in the nation.
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We saw how that worked out otl. Honestly we don't really know how Arab spring will play out and at the end of the day we should aim to keep Lybia as stable ally in North Africa.

In case of shooting of the protests? USA is allied with Saudi Arabia. Generally we should encourage some reforms but at the end of the day keeping stability in the region should take precedent.
 

Fratsup

The problem is not that the US is doing the same the problem is that Gaddafi screwed up the situation into the extreme. More importantly there is only so much we can support Gaddafi before it becomes more of a liability to us. Supporting some form of conservative democracy would probably help us more in retaining influence in the region than spending more money on continues wars and support. We should strive for Oman rather than Yemen is what I am saying.

Also all things considered I do believe that the Arab Spring might extend into the Sahel considering the increasing competition Russia, France, and China will have over the region.
 
Jaenera Targaryen

Jaenera Targaryen

Fratsup said:
The problem is not that the US is doing the same the problem is that Gaddafi screwed up the situation into the extreme. More importantly there is only so much we can support Gaddafi before it becomes more of a liability to us. Supporting some form of conservative democracy would probably help us more in retaining influence in the region than spending more money on continues wars and support. We should strive for Oman rather than Yemen is what I am saying.

Also all things considered I do believe that the Arab Spring might extend into the Sahel considering the increasing competition Russia, France, and China will have over the region.
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There is no guarantee any new, post-Gaddafi regime will continue to support Russian interests in North Africa and the Med. They may even decide to end preexisting arrangements with Russia and instead turn to the USA. So, as distasteful as it is, the Gaddafi regime, assuming it reaches a mutually-beneficial arrangement with Russia, ought to be supported.
 

Kriss

Fratsup said:
The problem is not that the US is doing the same the problem is that Gaddafi screwed up the situation into the extreme. More importantly there is only so much we can support Gaddafi before it becomes more of a liability to us. Supporting some form of conservative democracy would probably help us more in retaining influence in the region than spending more money on continues wars and support. We should strive for Oman rather than Yemen is what I am saying.

Also all things considered I do believe that the Arab Spring might extend into the Sahel considering the increasing competition Russia, France, and China will have over the region.
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Generally we have no way to replace Gaddafi without shooting ourselves in the foot and honestly we should avoid regime change and being champions of democracy. Our policy should be based on our interests and as long as Gaddafi has our and China's backing he should be safe, especially since ITTL economic and geopolitical situation is worse for the West and otl USA under Obama was actually quite reculant to go in.

France on other hand won't dare to go in alone.
 

Fratsup

This goes both ways since Libya can just turn towards the US Iraq be neutral. Also I did say we should meddle to get someone supportive of us in charge.
 
Jaenera Targaryen

Jaenera Targaryen

Fratsup said:
This goes both ways since Libya can just turn towards the US Iraq be neutral. Also I did say we should meddle to get someone supportive of us in charge.
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Best not to rock the boat, especially since regime change tends to lean towards bad endings. By now, this should be evident in the ongoing American experience of deepening quagmires of Iraq and Afghanistan...the latter of which Russia similarly experienced back in the 1980s. No, let's not risk it, and if Gaddafi can secure our interests by cooperating with us, then his regime should be preserved and supported.
 

Fratsup

Actually Gaddafi is going to be a problem no matter what since the man is going to just get older and frankly I am unsure if his mental state will keep up. If nothing else we should have plans just in case.
 

Kriss

Fratsup said:
Actually Gaddafi is going to be a problem no matter what since the man is going to just get older and frankly I am unsure if his mental state will keep up. If nothing else we should have plans just in case.
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He will have his successor. We really should avoid interfering into the internal political establishment of the countries outside our direct sphere of influence.
 
ThePinkRabbit

ThePinkRabbit

panpiotr said:
2. Should Russia accept Obama's proposal made in Moscow - in exchange for lifting American embargo on Russian nuclear sector, Russia and its allies will renew export of metals to USA, additionally Russia will agree to sign a New Start Treaty with USA.
A) Yes
B) No

3. Please choose, which party will win snap legislative elections in May 2010.
A) United Labor Party in coalition with Agrarian Party - Dmitry Medvedev as supported candidate
B) Right Cause - Garry Kasparov as supported candidate
C) New People - Yabloko alliance - Alexey Nechayev as supported candidate
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A) Yes. This should ease tensions.
C) New People. Change is needed, after all.
 
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ThePinkRabbit

ThePinkRabbit

Jaenera Targaryen said:
A Russian air and naval base at Tripoli. In return, Russia can sell MiG-29s and Su-27s to Libya, as well as S-300s and modernized T-72s, among others, to Libya. Joint training and exercises between Spetsnaz and Libyan units, and more covert cooperation between the KGB and Libyan internal security. Russia should also get a share in Libya's resource extraction, which automatically benefits Libya by default, seeing as it invests rubles thereof and provides access to advanced extraction and refining technology. And of course, the precious Russian (possible even Chinese) veto in the UN Security Council against anything the Americans or the Israeli can push on the diplomatic front.
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I support this
 

Gaúcho Maldito

Banned
We should aim to save Gaddafi, Assad and maybe even Mubarak. The other side doesn't have reservations about helping its devils. Russia should stand by its allies and preserve/expand its area of influence.

The US will throw Mubarak to the wolves, this is a good moment to pick up the slack and make Egypt change sides.

Aside from Tunisia, the Arab Spring only brought upon death and destruction. It wouldn't surprise me if it was partially designed by Israel.
 
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Dude-a-Buck

panpiotr said:
1. Please write down areas in which Russia can collaborate with Libya.

2. Should Russia accept Obama's proposal made in Moscow - in exchange for lifting American embargo on Russian nuclear sector, Russia and its allies will renew export of metals to USA, additionally Russia will agree to sign a New Start Treaty with USA.
A) Yes
B) No

3. Please choose, which party will win snap legislative elections in May 2010.
A) United Labor Party in coalition with Agrarian Party - Dmitry Medvedev as supported candidate
B) Right Cause - Garry Kasparov as supported candidate
C) New People - Yabloko alliance - Alexey Nechayev as supported candidate
Click to expand...
1.I second @Jaenera Targaryen
A) Yes take the offer.
C) New People - Yabloko alliance - Alexey Nechayev as supported candidate
 

boredviewer1234

panpiotr said:
1. Please write down areas in which Russia can collaborate with Libya.

2. Should Russia accept Obama's proposal made in Moscow - in exchange for lifting American embargo on Russian nuclear sector, Russia and its allies will renew export of metals to USA, additionally Russia will agree to sign a New Start Treaty with USA.
A) Yes
B) No

3. Please choose, which party will win snap legislative elections in May 2010.
A) United Labor Party in coalition with Agrarian Party - Dmitry Medvedev as supported candidate
B) Right Cause - Garry Kasparov as supported candidate
C) New People - Yabloko alliance - Alexey Nechayev as supported candidate
Click to expand...


I will be honest, I'm thinking of ''pushing'' the resentment outwards the only question is where.

This already has a historical precedent Derna a city in Libya has had more fighters and suicide bombers for the ISI than any other city in Libya, in part because there is no hope. That's not a problem in fact we want the US backed government in Iraq to be weak and that requires some bodies to fight it. It both removes a actual threat to a friendly regime people willing to fight and makes things more difficult for the US so win win.

So will support @Jaenera Targaryen plan with the addition of making it easier for Libyans to get visa's to Georgia from there they can cross the border to Türkiye and then go Syria and infiltrate across the border to Iraq.


2 A
3 C
 
Red Angel

Red Angel

1. I support @Jaenera Targaryen plan.
2. A) Honestly, I'd like to sign the New Start treaty and de-embargo our nuclear sector.
3. C) Time for a new party since we really need reforms and they're a better alternative than the other two but if there's a whiff of de-socialism in the economy...
 
TheImperialTheorist

TheImperialTheorist

1. I support @Jaenera Targaryen plan.
2. A) I think the reduction of nuclear arms is an agreeable concept for all of us here. We have shown our strength in economics and international support; we do not need a ticking time bomb to belabor the point.
3. C) New People. If Lukashanko thinks he can pull a stunt like that without consequence, he thought wrong.
 
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